Intro: Welcome to the Simple Switch Podcast where you'll join me, Rachel, the founder of Simple Switch to talk about conscious consumerism and positive impact purchasing. Spending our money in a way that helps our planet and the people on it can be complicated and frustrating and we're passionate about bringing ease to your journey. Join us as we demystify big ideas about conscious consumerism and hear from amazing business owners using their work for positive change. Thanks for being here and enjoy the show. 

Rachel: Hey, Simple Switchers. I am especially excited about today's episode because it is brought on by questions from our community. So a little ways back before we launched the podcast, I put out a survey through Instagram and got some suggestions for what we should do on our upcoming episodes. And one of our most popular responses was; how do I shop ethically on a budget? 

And this is something I hear all the time, even before I started Simple Switch and just was starting to have the idea. People get pretty nervous about this. They would love to spend their money in a way that helps the world, but they've seen a lot of brands who have positioned themselves as luxury items or they're too expensive, and they don't always have the money to shop that way. Now, I totally understand this.

 It was so fun for me to get to interview Laura today. She is a financial, she says, financial fitness coach. She gets to talk to both businesses and individuals about the way they spend their money. Make sure that it is both ethical and a way that's going to benefit you long term, help you save, help you spend correctly. 

It was just a great interview, I think you guys are in for a treat. Pretty much it's just a free financial services episode. We’re so thankful for Laura's insight. I also want to just let you guys know that I have been pleasantly surprised as I've brought on partners for Simple Switch at the amount of companies who are positioning themselves as affordable. I hear from companies all the time that say they understand that people aren't always able to afford products if they are priced too highly so they have made a huge effort to build their business model around being accessible to all income types. Our toilet paper company, our coffee company, our soap company, a lot of these are just marginally higher than what you would spend if you went to buy it at the grocery store and they're delivered right to your door. Not only that, but they've got amazing social and environmental impact. So I think it's worth making the kind of shifts that Laura talks about in this episode. 

But if you ever have questions about this particular topic, please feel free to reach out to us because we would love to help you make decisions that feel easy and feel like they are working with your budget in a way that's going to serve you long term. We definitely don't want to be driving anyone's budget into the ground. We want to be supporting you guys, so feel free to reach out at any time. I think you're really going to enjoy the interview as much as I did. Here's Laura. Hi Laura, thank you so much for being with us.

Laura: Hey, Rachel I'm so excited to be doing this with you. 

Rachel: So, this is a really sought after episode. We've had a couple people ask for us to talk a little bit about finances with ethical purchasing. So I'm really excited to chat with you about it. Let's just start with the basics. Who are you and what is it that you do? 

Laura: Awesome. Well, hi everyone. My name's Laura Isanuk, I am a financial advisor and I work with everyone from individuals to companies to foundations to help align your investments with your values. So, you know, if you're working for kids organization, probably don't want to be investing in guns.  But at the end of the day, also really trying to help you as an individual, figure out what this financial life looks like. Helping you, guide you through short term decisions, long term decisions, and really balancing  what life today looks like, but then making sure that you're ready for this thing called retirement in your future. 

Rachel: Yeah, that's awesome. Man I know---most you know millennials that I talk to or people you know around our age. It's just something that,  it takes a lot of guidance. So we're really thankful that there are people like you who are doing it in a values based way. I only recently---we’re pursuing B Corp certification with Simple Switch and I only recently thought about the fact that who you bank with makes a great deal of difference what you're investing your money into.  So I think a lot of us forget that banks are investing our money or that our investments are going, you know, to real companies. 

Laura: Yeah. I mean really every dollar that you spend has some sort of feedback to either supporting the company. I mean if you also think of your taxes, what are your taxes supporting, if you're purchasing locally versus a larger organization.  That’s where banks come into the picture a lot. You know, if you're thinking with a big company like Chase it's actually probably unlikely that they're using that money to loan out to your local community members. So you know, just having awareness, there's just so many ways that every dollar that you're spending or even the dollars of yours that are sleeping in a bank or an investments, they can always be doing something. And so just being aware of what are they doing and what can they be doing more to help your goals be accomplish, you know, good awareness to have.


Rachel: Absolutely. I love that awareness. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for bringing that up.  Well we're going to have a more in depth interview about B Corp's later this season. But the way that I met you was through a B Corp event that you actually planned. So I know you're really involved. Can you tell us a little bit about your connection to the B community and how does that affect you work? 

Laura: I love the work that I get to do in general from nine to five, but then I'm also really involved as a community member, working with some non-profits like the Nature Conservancy, but then a certified B Corp. So the firm that I work through [unclear06:07] Financial Network is a certified B Corp, they've been one since 2011. And when I was working directly with them as an employee I got connected to the B Corp community and its great companies. Some of the larger ones your listeners might be aware of Patagonia [unclear06:30] Ben and Jerry's, New Belgium Brewery,  all B Corp. And it's really focused on companies who tagline is being the change. But just like organic certifications or lead certifications, you have to really pass a rigorous exam to get the certification.

Rachel: Don’t I know it? We’re going through that exam right now 

Laura: Yeah. You're how long?

Rachel: That's good stuff. Yeah. It's only been a few months for us, but I know we're just getting into it. 

Laura: Yeah. We’ll hear stories of people taking years to get their certification.  And it's not easy, once you have it you still have to get recertified every three years. So it's really a commitment too that, you as a company are looking at the long run aspects of your company and want to be part of that future world and aren't just looking to make a quick buck.  But at the end of the day it ends up really impacting your community and your employees and building a lot of value into your business that is intangible. 

But at the end of the day is going to really has a strong likelihood of making you more profitable, more successful in that long run. 

Rachel: Yeah, it's really cool to see that companies that are pursuing that are doing better. You know, it's not something that they're talking on. It just, you know, values aligned companies really do better all-around because consumers care so much more about that, it's beautiful to see. I love on their website it says that B Corps are a new kind of business that balances purpose and profit. I just think that's a really great way to say it. And I love shopping from B corpse and we're excited to be one sometime, sometime soon.

 Cool , well, like I said, this interview was inspired by some of our listeners through an Instagram poll who want to know how they can make these simple switches. You know, our company is really involved in trying to allow people to spend their money better, but doing it in an easy way, but to more ethical and sustainable purchasing, but on a budget. 

Shout out to Mary from Chicago. She was the first one to bring up this idea with us. She's been really intentional and asking these questions of, okay, I want to do this, but I see all these companies who have positioned themselves as, you know, luxury companies or there may be charging a lot more.  So the view that a lot of people have is that it's just too expensive to buy ethically and to buy in a way that supports your value. So it's one of the hesitations I hear the most. As a financial advisor and just as a person, what do you think about this? 

Laura: Yeah, I mean, thanks Mary for being purposeful and asking these questions. It's definitely a journey that we're all going to go on together.  For me it ends up coming a lot down to just choices and you know,  it's your choice if you want to purchase organic. Right? And that might have a mark-up say 10 to 30%. 

But maybe because you're being so intentional with this purchase, you're better about food waste. You know, a good stat that I always am baffled by is 40% of an individual's food goes to waste, not even just restaurants and supermarkets. So, you know, that would balance out your purchase. I also think of cars or alcohol, those extra, not necessarily luxuries. You know, you probably need a car, but do you need a new car? Does it have to be that most expensive car? 

And maybe that balances out because he bought a used car. You actually have this money month to month in your budget to pay a little bit more for organic or luxury.  You know it's interesting when I think of maybe some like higher end cosmetics that are you know, natural packaging, cruelty-free, all those things that we want. And I sometimes wonder like what are the real benefits of that in terms of maybe Vaseline would be just as nourishing for your skin. 

I'm not an expert in that. But I think the value of looking into those products and why are you getting those products and really understanding your mind behind why you are looking at that product in the first place. What is that thing that you're actually trying to solve in your life? And is there a cheaper, more local, more sustainable option that you're overlooking? Because it---because sometimes it is ease with our decisions and  you know, okay great, this product says it does everything for my skin, but it's really expensive.  Maybe it's dairy that you're eating that's actually your base issue. And so it doesn't matter the most holistic product that you get, you actually just need to stop eating dairy.

Rachel: Totally.

Laura: So, I don’t know, I kind of went off of a tangent there with a lot of different things—but…

Rachel: How would it make sense? I mean the idea of, I think sacrifice has a negative connotation, but of knowing, you know, where are some areas actually that you could adjust a little bit so that you are doing that. But I love what you had to say, especially about food waste is a great example of this, right? Where we're actually spending more than we need to a lot of times. So sometimes bringing this intentionality of having these more positive purchases actually helps us save money. And I think that translates to other kinds of products too. Like if you think about, a backpack. 

So one of our previous podcasts guests, Brad from Cause Gear, talked a little bit about how they really intentionally make their backpacks to last and to go on for a long time. So they might be a little bit more expensive, but you're making this beautiful investment that's going to last you forever. Like you mentioned, Patagonia does great with that. With their whole, you know, they don't want you to throw it away, they want you to send it back, get repairs. That's not necessarily getting you to buy more from them, but it is benefiting you so much in the long run. 

Laura: Yeah. Yeah. And clothing is another great example, right? If you want organic and cotton, hopefully it's higher quality so it is lasting you longer. And that's where I think being aware of the whole lifespan of any purchasing decision that you're doing. You know, if it's more expensive upfront, tell yourself how many years you think it should last and then break it down and really see if it's making sense in a long-term perspective, that dollar value rather than just that upfront dollar cost. 

Rachel: For sure. Yeah. I've been so thankful because that was one of the questions when I was just starting to ideate Simple Switch that people would ask me, you know. Like I had just come off of a year abroad. So a lot of us had been unemployed for a year and just working and doing service.  So a lot of the people who I was interfacing with and talking to are saying, well, how are you expecting us to afford these things? You know, I'm really on a budget, really on a tight budget. Which I definitely understand as a bootstrapping entrepreneur.

 I've been so pleasantly surprised with all the companies popping up who are really affordable. A lot of our partners, you know, have very similar prices. Our coffee company we work with, that's one of their core tenants is, you know, pricing their coffee the same way another company would, but they're able to give 100% of their profits to orphan care. So it's just interesting also, kind of breaking down that stereotype of all the products being crazy, more expensive, although there certainly are some.

 Laura: Yeah. 

Rachel: Last time you and I met, we talked about something you called financial fitness, which I just loved the idea of that. I think sometimes we focus a lot on our physical fitness and other areas, mental, emotional, financial, we don't pay as much attention to. As someone who focuses on that all the time, night and day. How often do you talk about value versus price? Like we were just talking about and how does that fit in? 

Laura: Yeah, yeah. I mean I'm not the one who's making the decision for my clients of what they actually should be buying. Right? But again, it going to helping them understand that short term and long term implications of their decisions. And so a lot of what I'll work through is, okay, you do want to buy organic food. Let's look at how much that's costing over the long run and okay, now you maybe have $50 less to your budget each month.  You know, is that coming from somewhere else? Is that cutting into your savings? What does that mean then if you're saving $50 less for retirement every month in 20 years? And really giving you that power behind the decisions that you're making to know like, wow, this $5 can make a difference.  

You’ll hear the latte effect a lot, I don't totally agree with that. Like you're not going to become a millionaire if you stopped drinking lattes. But there is something to say about emotional spending. And one good stat I heard recently is for every one negative experience we need three positive experiences to get us out of our funk. Yeah. And so I know for me personally, I get a lot of my positive things from food. And I do have friends who it's more in the shopping area, the whole treat yourself world.  But like what does that mean? If you want a spa treatment, like maybe you go home and do a bath and you cut your own cucumber and you light a candle and like maybe you do go to Target and you get one of those face masks and for the cost of $10, you might feel just as good as $100 plus spa treatment. 

And so I'll challenge clients, in you know, what are they working towards in the short term and long term? And that's where that fitness comes in, it’s that accountability.  You know, even the best athletes still work with a coach to help them improve certain skills or to keep their fitness in certain ways. And your finances can't be any different, like that's a huge part of our world, whether we like it or not. You know, money can't buy you love, it can't buy you happiness, but it absolutely impacts our world in so many ways so we have to pay attention to it.

Rachel: Wow, that's so good. I think it's so many of the things that you just said apply over so many areas. And yeah, I just, I love that the idea that we all still need a coach. We all need a support system, maybe mentors. But I think finances are this deeply personal thing that a lot of people don't think about needing help with, you know, and  don't feel comfortable reaching out for help. So I love that you're doing that and making people feel comfortable in that. 

And another thing I think translates so much to other parts of our life is just your why. So you're talking about your why behind spending and why behind everything. That goes in so many areas, right? Like the way that we're treating people and the way that we're living our life and what career we choose. If you're not doing that pre planning and having that intentionality of your why, you're going to go down the wrong road and you're going to waste something, whether it's your time or your money or, yeah, I just love that. 

Laura: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Sometimes I'll call myself a financial coach, sometimes I'm a financial therapist. It is very emotional at the end of the day. And we live in a society that we also don't really like to talk about money. So I also encourage everyone to talk about money and talk about it with your friends.

Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean you are going to find man---just having that community around you where you do feel more comfortable to talk about that, I think is hugely valuable. Oh great. I just feel like I'm already enjoying this conversation and learning a lot from you just personally. That's the best part of getting to do these interviews. Okay. One of our company's values is ease without apathy.  we're trying to help people adjust their purchasing in a way that allows them to engage with, you know, large social environmental issues without drastically or abruptly changing their lives and which a lot of times I think we're asked to do and keeping things, you know, easy and convenient the way so much of our society is. 

Sometimes I talk about how there's kind of a spectrum of purchasers, right? Some people you meet and they are gung ho. You've used organic as an example. So we'll say gung ho for organic or for you know, ethical production and they're going to do all the work. They're going to take as many hours as they need to in research. They're going to pay whatever amount in order to get the product that's best for the world. And then kind of on the other side of the spectrum, this is what I would maybe call the positive purchaser spectrum are everyone else. you know, people who don't have the time or resources to pour into this, they just need there to be a solution because they would love to be making this positive impact in the world, but they don't necessarily,  yeah, have the means to push forward in that. So I guess question for you, how big of a change do you think that this is? Is it possible to make these financial choices without turning your life upside down? These sacrifices, these pushes towards more ethical and value aligned shopping. 

Laura: Yeah. I mean this is where the coaching comes in, right? Like the decisions that you make today, they're not just going to happen overnight and immediately just continue to happen. So it's really looking at that power of habit and who you are and how you are adjusting moving forward.  I say The Power Habit because I actually really like that book. If you guys haven't read it, I absolutely recommend it. It just really puts in perspective… 

Rachel: I just download it on audible. So I'm glad you said that.

Laura: Yes it’s so good. It just really puts in perspective. We think we're logical beings as humans, but we're actually really emotional and really habit driven.  And so a lot of your purchases are just purely because of habit. You know, that coffee that you think you need, it’s actually just you maybe want a break or you want to be social. So really diving into that, I don't think it ends up being a huge turning your life upside down result, but you also can't make every single change overnight. Right? Like a good diet you gradually making changes. You want something that you can really stick to that you can really be accountable to.

Rachel: Totally.

Laura:  One of the things that I'd really highlight for people to try to do to get there is look at the community, who's around you. We were talking about that the last question, but you know, what are you doing with your friends when you spend time?  Are you going out for drinks every time? Is that something that maybe you could go to a friend's house and you have a bottle share and so you actually get to try a few different things and it's half the price. If you have kids, how are you rewarding them or what are you giving them for their birthday gifts?

Is it, you know, you always hear like experiences are more meaningful. Well maybe they would really appreciate just going to the park with you and having their birthday cake there.  I think, you know, exploring those things and really seeing how you're relating that to the people around you rather than just your own personal purchases. Like, you can only do so much on your end and when your friend asks you to a drink, you're probably going to cave.  

So that, also where just having that communication with the people around you. And sometimes I'll tell friends like, hey, I'm trying to do a no purchase Monday. Can we go for a dog walk instead today, then go out for dinner? And people will be really responsive to that. That's where we need to talk about these things more. Everyone trusts me, everyone would like to save more money.

Rachel: Absolutely.

Laura: And so when you do that in a fun, friendly manner, I think that's just a win, win for all. 

Rachel: Yeah. That is so good. I'm like over here taking notes because I think what that's pointing to is that pre intentionality again. But we don't, man, I'm excited now to read this book. What is it Power of Habit?  Because what you're saying is so legitimate. Like people might say, okay, well always do this. And so that feels like a huge switch, but you really have to have something  to kind of fill that hole and to make sure that you're getting that same stimulation, whether it be emotional or the habitual or whatever. 

That's, very cool. And yeah, I think, you know, with what we do at Simple Switch that needs to be something that's at the forefront of our mind as a company is, being able to plug those same kind of experiences that you're looking for. Because those are not bad desires. Right? The habits are not always necessarily a bad thing, but being able to perhaps just make these tiny, tiny changes. That's cool. I love the---Yeah. 

Laura: I was going to say that was one of the spoilers that'll give everyone for power of habit is you know, like you said not every decision is based on something wrong. But if you have any mixed feelings on the decisions that you're making, sometimes just saying them out loud. So if you're going to get that extra candy bar again at your break, like saying it like I am going to do this. and just that's where that awareness comes in and it might not be the right decision, might not be the wrong decision, but at least you're fully aware that I am in this moment, you know, buying this candy bar again.  I think that goes a long way.

Rachel: That's so cool. We talked, last week with Rosie Briggs from Eco Cycle about some zero waste stuff and about recycling. And one of the things she was talking about is doing kind of a self-assessment and because we asked about, I mean practical tips for any of these things we're talking about on the podcast. 

We always try to say, you know, what are some practical tips? And she said a lot of what you're saying, kind of just look at what you're doing and find one sustainable thing that you can actually do where you can be accountable to it. And it's not going to feel like this huge life changing goal. But I think that intentionality----I've talked to you, I think about this, but last year I did, a zero waste year where everything I touched, if I couldn't compost or recycle, I had to keep it. And that's kind of what you're saying is just---it was almost like the act of saying it out loud. Right?  I wasn't punishing myself if I made some trash.  But I had to be aware that I made trash every time instead of just allowing it to be something that just happened. 

Laura: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're overwhelmed with decisions every day, so sometimes saying it out loud, really just even though we think we're thinking it, that awareness with, by saying it out loud is huge.

Rachel:  Cool. Wow, that's awesome. I think it's always important for us to talk about this, and that is intersectionality in some of these decisions, and how different socioeconomic circumstances might lead to some more privilege and in some cases, more responsibility in these areas. What are your thoughts on that? 

Laura: I have so many thoughts on this. This is the  [unclear26:31]  podcast. 

Rachel: Tell me all your thoughts. 

Laura: This is just from where I'm coming from today. I have been thinking a lot about relativity and just where we are compared to others, right? So if we're making even a good solid income in this world, we know plenty of people out there who are making so much more than us and vice versa. There's generally people who are still worse off than us.  And so the people who are making more than us maybe inspire us or maybe make us feel that the system is unfair.  But then we can look to the people below us and say, well, you know, at least I have certain things that they do not. and so in financer your and just as a human being, you're always coming across that duality of where you are versus where others are and you know, the grass is always greener mentality. So I'll start with that and talking about coming from a place of privilege.  I think in a lot of ways, if you know, you are truly in a place where you have more money and you have extra expenses, or extra income rather, that you can use to kind of supplement some things. 

So,  you know, buying organic, buying local, making those potentially harder decisions cause they seem economically more prohibitive. I'm not saying all rich people like have to do that.  But I do think there's something to say about supporting the right things. And so whether that is going to that local farmer's market because others might not, but you want to make sure that that farmer is being supported and his workers are being supported. I think that is an important perspective to have.  You know, in general I always struggle as a financial adviser of just the cost of living and just making sure that clients are able to enjoy the day today. And I think that again, goes back to our conversation around habits and intentionality and awareness.  I think if we all had to, like, we could get by on very little money, right? 

When you think of just food, water, shelter, we would do fine. Very rarely, are you so impoverished in this nation that you're really struggling to just feed yourself or feed your kids? So everything from there is a blessing for us and that's where we get the first world problems stuff. But, I think that's real and I think that we need to embrace that and really think about, gosh, like what is my money supporting? How is it supporting me? And just understanding that bigger ecosystem that all of this plays into. 

Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. Oh man, that's so good.  I mean we're all just [unclear30:01] 

Laura:  Again we could talk hours about that. 

Rachel: You're so right.

Laura: I am a white--grew up middle-class female and so I know I have a different perspective than someone else. And so, you know, embracing different perspectives I think that's a lot of what we try to do as investors in the type of investing that we do is understand diversities within companies. And what they're trying to do, and I'm really trying to embrace that more and more as investors. I guess that's the other thing I'd highlight for people to think about. 

Rachel: Yeah, absolutely.  I think we just have so many different kinds of influence. Right? So like financial is one of those ways that we come from a lot of different perspectives. But also, I mean I see people with a lot of just social clout or maybe political clout who are able to also use that privilege to be supporting the right thing. Like I just loved that what you had to say. It's not necessarily about whether, you know, are you making the right choices that someone else says you should make, but are you just supporting the right thing? And that can be with your voice, with your dollar, with so many different things. So yeah, thanks for talking about that. 

You're so right that we could go on and on and on and I would love to get more voices to talk about that eventually. But thanks for touching on that.

Laura: Yeah.

Rachel: okay. So for our listeners, I mentioned that I was going to ask this, but what are a few small practical steps that you think people could take to rework a budget to include conscious consumerism or purchasing?

Laura:  Yeah, well the first thing I hope is like do you have a budget? Because more often than not, people don't. And so, you know, it's hard in the world of credit cards I think to just say, if I can pay my credit card bill every month, I don't really need to pay attention to what I'm spending. That's not true. So, definitely look at what you're spending and break down those bigger things. Like if you go to Target, are you getting toilet paper and dog food and a new bathing suit? Like you need to break out those items, right? 

Rachel: Yeah Totally.

Laura: And with that, once you know what you're spending, try to get a true budget of what you hopefully want to be spending each month.  From there looking at, okay, short term, midterm, long term financial goals. Do I want to go on an international trip next year? Do I want to get a dog, do I want to buy a house?  Thinking about those purchases and thinking about the dollar amount behind them so you know what you're working towards. You know, when you say no to I keep going back to that coffee. But you know, when you say no to that $5 coffee a day, it's because you can buy that extra ski pass this year because you want the flexibility between all the mountains. You know, that’s important to know what you're working towards. And that's where, when you think of goals, like hopefully everyone's familiar with smart goals. So my gosh. 

Rachel: I am but go ahead and say it just in case.

Laura: Yeah. Right. Okay. I'm blanking on what the [unclear33:08] specific. Specific goals, measurable, achievable, relevant and time bound.  So, you know, being able to say I'm going to save $5,000 by January of next year through not getting coffee every day. Having it be really clear, that's again where you think of who we are as humans, like we need goals, we need smart goals, and we need to work towards them. And that's where, another practical step, get a coach, get a financial coach or I do encourage people to use free resources like this podcast. There's other blogs out there about money saving tips.  Every decision that you're making financially is unique to you. 

So there's a lot of generic things that I can say, but until you are digging on your own and either working with a coach or looking for your own specific searches of how to do X, Y, and Z . That’s going to be your best bet so really looking at what works for you. And speaking of you,  I also love to highlight your biggest asset is yourself, right? Like unless you come from family wealth, you are the one who's making your income and giving you that money to live your life and hopefully one day retire.  And theoretically you have an unlimited earning potential. So, when was the last time you got a raise? When was the last time you talked to your manager about a raise? I always think that's a really important conversation to have that if you haven't done recently, especially in today's worker environment, go for it. 

And maybe they don't give you that raise today, but you know, come out of that meeting with a few concrete answers of what do I need to get there and what one is realistic to have that conversation again.  The other thing that I think is really modern in today's world is the side hustle.  So whether it's doing something extra that you love. I've always thought like maybe I would, I love gardening. Maybe I'd be a landscaper or maybe it'd be a florist.  Finding something that either works with that passion or something that you're really good at and, using that to your advantage and using that money to help you get ahead. One final thought is if you're doing a larger purchase waiting 24 hours to see if ups still feels like the right one  or, and this actually could be on any size purchase. 

Would you get 10 of those? And if the answer is no, you probably don't need one of them.  And just so that's another way of thinking of something that like, is this really necessary in my life? I'm thinking if it were to be replicated over and over again, if you'd still get it.  Not always the case with something like a, I don't know, like a kayak, right? Like you're not going to say yes to 10 kayaks, but you understand the reason that you're saying no to 10 kayaks but yes to one.

Rachel: Yeah, totally. And  that adds that intentionality again. Right? Like having those kind of just thought triggers. Wow. Yeah, those are great tips.  I'm like excited to, you know be working on my budget with those things in mind. And also, it sounds like a lot of what you're saying has to do with that intentionality again, it seems like that's where we're landing. But with just, you hear this all the time in the entrepreneurship world, but you manage what you measure, right? So if we're just allowing those things, to just go ahead and happen without us thinking about them, then a lot of times they're going to be out of our control as opposed to being able to control those thing. Cool. Nice. Okay. Our final question is just kind of free form. What else do you think our listeners should know about you or your industry or this idea of positive impact purchasing on a budget? 

Laura: Yeah.  I actually, I'm not really sure what to say because I feel like there's a lot here.  I think the thing that comes to me most readily is, again, like we're overwhelmed with decisions every day. So really focusing on just what can you do as an individual in your own realm of influence and also being willing to let go of what you can't control. You know, you don't make $1 million, don't get upset that you're not a millionaire.  But, and having that forgiveness, when you don't always make the right decision. But then coming back to what was I feeling in that moment? And, you know, why did I make that decision and what can I do to prevent that decision in the future?  I think about that a lot with my food purchasing, especially when I'm like on the road, and just purchasing something quick. Like if I had thought ahead and brought a snack, I wouldn't be as hungry and I wouldn't just need food immediately. 

So it's really about setting yourself up for success and that's where like you aren't by yourself in this. Everyone is going through this, talk to your friends, talk to your community, talk to the online world, you know, like know that you're not alone and whatever struggles that you're having,  just always try to look for those answers of what you can be doing better for the next time.

Rachel: That's so good. Oh two thoughts on that because that goes just so along with what we're trying to do with this podcast and with Simple Switch. We are about to start a Facebook group for people who kind of want that support system. Because sometimes it's hard to find, right? If you're not readily in that community, which some of us are, but some of us aren't.  Yeah. So we'll be putting kind of a group for listeners of this podcast and buyers of Simple Switch and whoever wants to be a part of learning more about this kind of stuff where you guys can be interfacing with each other and asking those kinds of questions. 

But I just love the comment that you made about, it's almost like a mindfulness thing of not judging your decisions but being able to have the clear conviction to do something different the next time. I in my, you know, personal friendships, we talk a lot about shame versus conviction. And so judging yourself for doing those things or like beating yourself up about it is not going to help you make a better decision. But like you were saying, if you're able to just kind of track those things and say, well, what cause me to do that and yeah, what's going to help me do something better the next time? I love that. I mean the most obvious example that we see within, you know, my industry with [unclear40:00] purchasing people not wanting to use maybe Cindy's plastic. So they are saying, what can I do differently next time? 

So now they carry, you know, a fork and knife in their car that they can like bring and use. So finding other little ways to do that. But not beating herself up about it, just changing, you know, just doing it. Yeah. That's so good. Laura, I am so, so thankful for all your thoughts today. I feel like I got a little peek into.  Yeah, something I don't know a lot about and so I'm very thankful and I'm sure a lot of listeners will be too. So thanks so much for being with us today. 

Laura: Pleasure being here, Rachel, and to everyone. Good luck on your journey, It will forever continue.

Outro: Thanks so much for joining me today. If you'd like this episode, you can support us by leaving a great review, sharing with your friends and subscribing. Thanks for caring about our planet and the people on it. We'll see you again soon.