Empowerment through Solar: Megan Birney of Unite to Light
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Intro: Welcome to the Simple Switch Podcast where you'll join me, Rachel, the Founder of Simple Switch to talk about conscious consumerism and positive impact purchasing. Spending our money in a way that helps our planet and the people on it can be complicated and frustrating and we're passionate about bringing ease to your journey. Join us as we demystify big ideas about conscious consumerism and hear from amazing business owners using their work for positive change. Thanks for being here and enjoy the show.
Rachel: Happy July Simple Switchers. Today on the podcast, I got to talk to one of our partners, Megan Birney, she works with Unite to Light. They make our amazing solar power bank chargers as well as our Luc lights. If you guys haven't seen these yet, they are two incredible products because they sit right at the intersection of our social and environmental impact. This company uses renewable energy, which Megan has a big background in and will speak to us a little bit about, but they also use that renewable energy to donate to communities in need. They especially focus on hospitals and schools to make sure that people are safe as they're doing things like giving birth and that they have light to do things like taking their exams. It's really cool to hear their story and I think you are going to really enjoy Megan's expertise as well as her attitude toward what she does. We're so thankful for the questions that she's asking as well as the way that she approaches her job. So here's Megan.
Hi Megan. Thanks so much for being here with us today.
Megan: Thanks for having us, Rachel.
Rachel: Right. Let's get started with just who are you and where is the company located and where does it have an impact and what is it that you guys are making and selling?
Megan: Sure. So I'm with Unite to Light and my name is Megan Birney, I'm the president. We're located out of Santa Barbara, California but we work globally. So what we do is provide light and energy to people who are living without electricity. So we were in 74 countries from right here in our hometown of Santa Barbara to South Africa, Bangladesh, Nepal. You kinda name it, we've probably touched there.
Rachel: That's amazing. Very cool. This is not something I told you I was going to ask you about, how do you guys make those connections? Like that's a pretty significant touchpoint.
Megan: Yeah. So we're a small organization, but we have really amazing partners. So we work primarily through distribution partners and sometimes it's through somebody who's seen us on the web or through a podcast that they've heard; other times, it's close friends. So we really do kind of have a variety. So we work with small NGOs, we work with individuals and we also work with large kinds of institutions like the UN and things like that. So we really have a pretty broad reach of who we work with around the world.
Rachel: Very cool. Nice. okay. Tell us a little bit about how Unite to Light got started.
Megan: Unite to Light got started back in 2010. There was actually a visiting professor from Ghana at the University of California, Santa Barbara. And he was talking to some of the professors there at the Institute for Energy Efficiency and essentially challenged them to make a small, durable, low cost but very powerful reading light. The students at his university were not able to read and study at night at the level they really needed to succeed and so, he challenged these professors to really help him. And as good engineers, they stepped up and met that challenge. And we've been distributing lights since 2011 based on this kind of request from this one visiting professor.
Rachel: Very cool. Nice way to go to him to kind of let their needs be known and it's grown you guys to such a big cool organization. I love that.
Megan: Thanks. Yeah. It was a bunch of, it was interesting because it was, you know, there's a bunch of Nobel laureates there and he kind of put it back to them and said, "You know, well, what are you doing for the world?"
They're like, "But we have these lights and these solar panels."
And he's like, "I can't afford them. Like, give me something I can use."
Rachel: Totally. Yeah. And how often does that happen where we have these great innovations but they're just like not super accessible to people. So very important that you guys are able to do that.
Megan: Yeah. Yeah. It's been a fun, fun project.
Rachel: Okay. So I'm sure you guys hear all the time about how your lights are being used around the world. I know you guys focus a lot of your lights on hospitals and on schools which it's been so fun for me to kind of dig into those stories and just think about, you know, if I had to do those things without light. Yeah. I mean it would be really awful. So I love that you guys are focusing on that. Tell us a favorite story about Unite to Light from the impact side, a way that you have seen the impact shine, no pun intended.
Megan: Oh, we'll take it. It's a good question. You know, I think the thing that most people think of when they think about access to light is reading and studying and education and that is one of our core principles. But I think for me when I started at this organization about three years ago, the thing that really struck me most was the impact that this has with our midwives.
So midwives all over the world are doing amazing work by candlelight, by fire. And when we talk to them about having light or having power, cause we do have a cell phone charger, just the change in their lives is phenomenal. Oftentimes they're the only trained medical provider or provider in a rural area. And so if we can give them a source of power for their cell phone, and also a source of light really can change things pretty significantly for them obviously with the moms that they help but also with themselves, you know, they can call for help when they need it. They can also have it as they go from place to place. A lot of times there's not, you know, not only not lighting in the homes, but there's no street lighting.
And so. if you're a midwife, babies don't wait for it to be daylight for them to need it. So these midwives telling us that they're helping hundreds of, of mothers and babies every single year and that these lights and this power can really make the difference between, life and death for people. I think that's really been the most striking impact that I've seen or I've heard over the last few years.
Rachel: Wow. Yeah. That's, so cool. And what a good point that these things just don't wait. Right. So I mean, those are the emergency. And I liked that you guys have these resources that are mobile, right? So you're not just providing a solar power for a whole building. You know, it's a more personal thing which can help people on a more personal level.
Megan: Yeah. And that really is our focus. It's called kind of the Pico solar market, but it's really the personal kind of mobile devices. And so people can move around with them and they can go places where they need and they're both very lightweight and compact. And that's been intentional on our part because we know that people are already probably carrying quite a bit, whether it's a jug of water or their supplies or their school books. We wanted them to be as mobile as possible.
Rachel: Yeah. Man, that's so cool. Just as someone, I use your solar charger all the time. You guys recently posted a picture. When I went on a partner visit to Guatemala, I had the incredible opportunity to hike a volcano and we did overnight on a mountain, you know, and so I mean for me it's super low stakes but you know, I wouldn't been able to take those pictures or wouldn't have been able to...I got to call my mom, you know, from Guatemala because of that. So just having those like personal things, I mean spans some really high stakes stuff and some really, you know, low stake stuff that probably helps a lot with y'alls business model I would assume too, to have that be a double impact; really, really great.
Megan: Definitely. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. I rarely travel with mine whether it's, you know, traveling internationally or even on a backpacking trip, I bring my solar charger too cause you just never kind of know when you're going to need a little extra power. And yeah, it is fun to kind of know like, Hey, you know, this is great. It's easy for me, makes my life much more convenient, kind of lets me do these things that we sometimes take for granted. And at the same time, you know, whenever we do a buy 'one, give one' model, so with that somebody else is also benefiting; one of these midwives or a doctor or nurse.
Rachel: That's so cool. Yeah. I mean not to, well, yes to brag on your product. I'm just super impressed with it because also, at this point, I've traveled to 25 countries and you always want to have one of those power banks and I have had a bunch of different ones that have just been like really bad. You know, I've tried a lot of different power banks and even if I wasn't working with the solar, like y'alls holds a lot of power and you know, has the two ports, which was really helpful. But yeah, just every feature that I've ever been looking for in a power bank you guys have and it's so great that I found that. And then you guys also do good with it. So I'm just thrilled about your product personally. I use it all the time.
Megan: That's awesome. Well, thanks. So I mean, it really is a credit to our partners, right? Because this is not the first iteration for us. And I'd say the same thing. You know, we've tried a lot of these and they just haven't been very good. And so, about a year ago we decided we were going to try to get the best thing we could for a reasonable price. Right? I mean, if you want to pay a triple, you can get something that's better. But, you know, we wanted people to be able to afford this and not just people here in the States, but also our partners over overseas. So it had to have a kind of approachable price point, but we really wanted to put out a good product. And so we solicited feedback from our customers. So that includes our clients and our customers.
So that included, you know, we had just done a big distribution in Santa Barbara with about 50 local homeless people that were living in their cars and they were actually one of our better test pilots because, you know, they're using these things pretty hard. And we gave them a bunch of different products and it was really fun to see them using these products and you know, being able to connect to services and talk to their families and then also having them provide the feedback. And so having that customer feedback from people using these on a day to day basis has been really important for us. And I'm glad to hear you like the outcome cause we're pretty proud of it.
Rachel: Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, man. And it's not just me. I mean, I was telling you this over email, but I mean, even just people who are close to me or in my home, my parents are bringing out on their trip to Alaska, they just bought one. And one of my dear friends, two of them are going on a bike trip where we're kind of outfitting them with simple switch things and they'll be spreading the word as they go from Denver all the way to Seattle. And they are planning to do that just on bikes. So yeah, it's really, I'm depending on it enough to send all my friends out into the world with just this as their source of energy so that they can have your product.
Megan: That's great. I can't wait to see pictures.
Rachel: Yeah, me too. It will be good. Okay, so we heard from the impact side and one thing that I've noticed with pretty much all of our partners and that has been so fun to hear on the podcast is that it goes both ways, right? So we hear, and you touched on this a little bit, but we hear these amazing stories of impact. Maybe someone was empowered, maybe someone got nutrition, maybe we're making an impact on the planet. But there are also incredible stories from the customer side, from people you know, here in the States or otherwise who are buying this product and they're the ones kind of pushing that forward. Do you have any favorite stories kind of on that?
Megan: I think you actually just kind of summarize what it is. It's people who have bought our product and be like, 'Oh, this is a nice thing to do. I like your message. I like your mission. I'll buy one.' And then they, you know, call me a week later or even a month later and are just like, 'Oh my gosh, this is the best solar charger I've ever had. I went backpacking and it, you know, charged my phone and it turns my GPS and I traveled with it and it allowed me to connect to people.' And I think that's been fine.
My favorite thing is, is really helping kind of, or having people that, you know, did this because it was the right thing to do and then just being super excited about the technology. Yeah. I think that's probably the favorite part of it.
Rachel: That's so great. I'm just so thrilled to hear that. And that happens with so many of our partners that I think, you know, maybe even a generation ago when you heard about this kind of shopping, it was very much like kitchey things that people bought because of the cause and for no other reason, right? We had our normal shopping that is what fuels our economy and our normal shopping that was for quality products. And then we had kind of our like charity shopping that was for things that didn't actually matter to us or weren't very practical or maybe weren't great quality and people were just able to push them because of their cause. And it has been so fun for me doing, you know, partner outreach for Simple Switch, working with all these companies that cared deeply about making this good product. And so that makes the impact sustainable, right? Because people aren't going to buy it over and over if it's not a good product. So I'm thrilled to hear that from you guys. And I'm so lucky to get to work with some of the like coolest business people in all the world, in my opinion.
Megan: Well, thanks. Yeah, we love it as well and I'm like you, it's not just our products, but you know, I tried to do that personally too. I think I just bought like a pair of headphones that does hearing tests for kids. I was like, 'That was amazing.'
Rachel: Very cool. Nice. We have a partner we're trying to onboard that's like that. I wonder if it's the same one. Okay. One of our brand values is 'ease without apathy.' How do you feel like Unite to Light makes it easy, you know, or winsome or appealing for people to use their purchasing power for good? How are you guys able to engage with people with the stories behind your products and what strategies do you guys use for that?
Megan: Yeah, I mean, I think we always try to start with the story at least for us, because there are so many kinds of products out there like ours, you know, there's a lot of different batteries. There's a lot of different solar chargers to pick from. And while we love getting feedback from you that ours is kind of one of the best in the market, it's hard to communicate that on the internet, right? Everybody kind of wants to say that. So we really do try to start with the story and to start with, you know, when you buy, where does this go? Why are you buying? And as a nonprofit that important to us, that's the entire reason that we are selling these. But then we also try to continue that over the longterm. So if you buy a product from us, about a month later, you're actually going to get an email and it's going to tell you a project that we've done in the last month so that you can understand and see. Like, what's an example of one of the projects we did?
You can also pick your project so you can go to our site and just buy a solar charger or Simple Switch and buy a solar charger. But you can also go to our website and pick, you know, an education program or a program for midwives or a program for disaster response. And so that gives people a little bit more control of their buying power and makes it a little bit more fun cause they actually get to pick the projects that they care most about. And yeah, so that's probably one of my favorite parts is when people find a cause that they really care about and then they can really tailor their purchasing towards that.
Rachel:: Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. It's very, very cool for people to be able to engage in that way. I've loved seeing that with your company. Your company is one of the few that has kind of that nonprofit arm. So a lot of the companies that I'm working with are doing wonderful things, but it's for-profit just based company. So it's cool to see the unique ways that you guys are able to do that.
Megan: Yeah, it's an interesting time right now because there are a lot of kind of, you know, companies that are being founded with this kind of, you know, the triple bottom line but with some benefit. And that's amazing and I don't and I'm so glad to see that. We were founded kind of before that whole craze started. So we are a nonprofit and it's not just a nonprofit arm, we're entirely a nonprofit. The only reason, you know, we sell these is so that we can provide products to people living without electricity. So in certain ways, it really opens up what we do cause it keeps us really focused. We're hyper-focused on providing products to people living without electricity. It's just kind of benefit that we also get to work with clients who have electricity and want to help us. But it also can be a little bit limiting sometimes but I don't think I'd have it any other way.
Rachel: Totally. Yeah. That's a cool model. I love to hear that. Yeah, another brand value for us this always brings up the best stories is 'iterate often.' So we just talk about the fact that we want to be in this industry as listeners and we want to be making changes as needed. So,we don't want to go in with a prideful mentality and then say, you know, we're gonna stick to our way and we're going to do it this way but that leads us to be a company that's changing a lot and pivoting a lot. And sometimes those can be, you know, kind of disaster stories; other times there are small changes.
But we know that it's kind of a crazy industry and you guys are working globally, which adds factors there. Tell us about a time where you guys had to shift or pivot and how did that affect your business?
Megan: Sure. So, as I mentioned before, we work primarily through distribution partners, for one of the main reasons is because we aren't experts in every single place. We aren't experts in every single community. So before we go into a community, we make sure we find those experts. We make sure that we have those relationships and then we really depend on the people that we're working with, in the community to tell us what they need. Our kind of mission is pretty basic like power for people without electricity. And then we work with the community to figure out who's going to benefit the most and how that distribution is going to work the best.
So one of the examples was a school in South Africa. We were working with both kind of primary schools and secondary schools. In the secondary schools, we were seeing really good results with secondary schools with graduation rates and pass rates. But you'd give a student a solar light and then the next year they're graduated. And you know, it's great that they still get to use that solar light but we felt like there could be a bigger impact. And one of the principals actually came up with this idea, what she called a light library. So instead of giving the students the lights, we actually gave them to the school and then when the students needed them, they could essentially check them out just like you would a library book.
So yeah, so she piloted this for us and over a couple of years, she saw her graduation rates go up pretty significantly. And so, yeah, so we actually decided to do a bigger project back in 2017 and we did 1100 lights to 14 different schools to create these light libraries. In the first year, we saw an increase of graduation rates of 21%.
Rachel: Wow. That's so cool.
Megan: Yeah. And then the second year, the same lights, we saw an increase in graduation rates of 26%. So it's a $10 light, you know, where now, I think it ends up being like 470 students graduated that wouldn't have graduated before over two years.
Rachel: That's amazing. All because there was a shift in perspective and that you guys were able to make that change.
Megan: Yeah. Yeah. Our partners are definitely very active in our distribution and, and that's probably my favorite part of what we do is getting to work with these partners and learning from them.
They really do have quite a bit of knowledge and experience and I feel very honored to be able to work with them.
Rachel: Absolutely. I love that attitude. I think that's something that a lot of people who haven't worked in this industry are actually a lot of people who have as well, don't have a great understanding for. And I love when we run into partners, pretty much all our partners are like this. Some, maybe, by just my bias but who are really paying attention to local people and being really humble about what they're doing. Cause we don't want to see people going in and pressing their own agenda. It's very cool that you guys are listening deeply to people who really know more than we do. And it's fun for me, even one step more removed. So you guys are able to talk with your partners and then I'm able to talk to you, bring that to you know, a larger audience but all with the humility that I have no idea what the needs are there. So I'm so thankful that you guys are asking the right questions.
Megan: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that was an early lesson from this kind of 'buy one, give one' industry, right. I think we've all learned from some early lessons in the industry that we do need to, as you said, iterate often and listen to our constituents and pay a bit more attention and be very humble in what we're offering and what the needs are and I think that's a great sign of an industry that's growing and getting stronger.
Rachel: Yes, absolutely. For sure. Yep. Definitely some early examples that were not done super well. You listeners have probably heard of this idea of kind of doing more harm than good, right? Like we have the best intentions and there have been companies that have gone in to say, you know, we're going to donate these things, but a lot of times that can hurt local economies or it can just that, you know, bring dignity or empowerment in a way that you think it will. So yeah. So thankful for like the third or fourth time that you guys are asking great questions. Yeah. That's great. Cool. Why did you guys choose to sell with Simple Switch? Why do we get to have you as awesome partners?
Megan: You know, I really like that you guys are not kind of...I really like that you're a marketplace for a lot of different products and that people can kind of come to one place with a bigger mission in their head. So, you know, maybe I'm going to buy a pair of sunglasses, but you know, while I'm kind of browsing, I have this opportunity to look at all of these other really amazing, amazing products that are all giving back. So I think that's definitely a thing that we've been drawn to is this ability to kind of cross-pollinate with people who are already in this mindset of shopping with a purpose. And so the fact that you're bringing all of those people to one place is really a benefit for us and we really appreciate being included.
Rachel: Oh, thanks so much. It's been so fun for me to see..you guys have sold pretty well on Simple Switch, which has been great to watch and then, but people will buy it with other things that are so like what you're doing. So, you know, I mentioned that I bring it on camping trips and traveling a lot. And so we'll have people buying, you know, our snack bars and our camping equipment and you know, different apparel that goes with a kit. You can see that people are planning this big camping trip and that they're going to bring you along. So I'm glad that you guys have liked that and yeah, I can't wait. We're about to do a big web redesign that will just show off the impact of our partners a little bit better and be able to track some of that. And yeah, I'm looking forward to hopefully bolstering kind of what you were just talking about. So, yeah, thank you, that means a lot to me. I'm really glad that we get to work with you guys. What is your personal favorite product that you guys sell and why do you love it? I know you just have those two that you're featuring.
Megan: Yeah, we do just have two. The usefulness of the solar charger is hard to beat but at the same time...so the other product we have, which we've never really talked about is we call it our Luke light, which is our task light. And that was our first product that we came out with. And it's really just this like workhorse of a task light. And the really exciting thing is that we actually just redid it, we're at our third iteration. We released it in February and the new version is awesome. It's waterproof, which is, yeah, it's huge. That was a really big feat to get this, you know, small electronic solar power light to be waterproof. But again, kind of based on the feedback of our users it was really necessary, especially kind of in the equatorial region where it's really humid that was necessary.
So I'd have to say our Luke light. I mean, it's really lightweight. It's got a gooseneck which makes it kinda easy to use for a lot of different things. If you go on our website, you'll see pictures with people hanging it around our necks. That was something that the midwives actually showed us. They started using the gooseneck kinda to hang around their neck so they could have, you know, both hands, free in delivery. And it's just so versatile and so tough and so useful. I think our little loop lights, probably my favorite product just really kind of encompasses what we're trying to do.
Rachel: That's awesome. We just hosted a giveaway of the Luke Light and it was so much fun to get the word out about this product. And we have a lot of people really interested in it. Also really funny is a dog ended up winning it. I mean, it was the dog's owner, but you know, that dog accounts that people follow. So that was really funny for us to do that. But the owners are really excited to take it out. And yeah, we're excited that they're waterproof. Thanks for mentioning that cause I'm sure a lot of people need that.
Megan: Yeah. It's one of those things you're like, 'Oh, right.; You know, and I mean, yeah, we don't think about it all that often, but especially if you're living somewhere, living in a mud hut or if you're a nomad, you know, there's no inside really. These things live outside. So that also is nice cause it means it's gonna live, you know, for those of us who put it in our windows, as I do, you know, I use mine for my kind of, when the power goes out, I live in Southern California, so our power goes out more frequently now. But you know, I just leave mine in my window and I mean those things last for...I have one of the originals that, you know, eight years old now and it's still going strong.
Rachel: Wow, that's awesome.
Megan: So the sucker is gonna last forever, which is really important with these kinds of last-mile places that, you know, we may never get to again.
Rachel: Yeah, yeah. And what a Testament to the quality of the product. And yeah, like you're saying, I mean that matters to us, but in our kind of throwaway culture, it matters less than the people that you guys are able to give to and work with so that's very cool. It's also great if you have little kids cause I can throw them around and they're not gonna break them. It's hardy. Both of your products are super hardy. So I'm really thankful for that cause I'm just kind of a 'work hard play hard' kind of person so I'm tossing things around too, just as much as you know, my three-year-old niece would be.
Megan: Yeah, exactly.
Rachel: I didn't ask you this before, but I'm curious, how did you personally get involved with Unite to Light?
Megan: It was actually interesting. I was involved with another nonprofit in Santa Barbara on the renewable energy side, really supporting solar and wind projects and then I worked for a solar financing company. So I was kind of a renewable junkie, but I'd always known about Unite to Light. The town is pretty small and so I'd kind of known about the mission and been a marginal supporter for several years. And then they had their president retire and one of your board members reach out to me and asked me if I was interested in the position and I was, you know, kind of coming from the renewable side.
And it's been a really interesting learning experience because the technology is fantastic. But it's kind of just a tool. I'd say we do much more aid and development than we do renewable energy. You know, it's really about education and health and prosperity and really even a little bit about hope, you know, giving people hope that somebody is....
Rachel: I'd say a lot about hope, for sure.
Megan: Yeah. You know, letting people know we're thinking about them and that we believe in them and their potential. So it's been a really great learning experience for me to kind of go from more of the technical solar technology side and the finance and business side to really going into more aid and development. I've been really lucky.
Rachel: Very cool. I love that story. And then one other curiosity question. You've actually been mentioned on the podcast before, I'm not sure if you know. But our first interview was with the president of ROHO Sandals who you actually introduced me to. So I was curious, how do you guys know each other?
Megan: Yeah, Kelly's great. I love their products. So there is a coworking space in Santa Barbara called Impact Hub. I think there's actually Impact Hubs. I know there are Impact Hubs all over the world. And Kelly and I both were ROHO, where we both work out of the Impact Hub. So we were, you know, just sit next to each other one day, working and having coffee and started chatting about what we do and realized that we both kind of have this kind of, you know, purchasing for good product thing and yeah. And so we've just become friends and whenever there are opportunities that make sense for one or either of us, we've really tried to draw each other in. I think you found us. I think when you found us, I thought of Kelly right away and ROHO. And, yeah, they've got some beautiful, beautiful products.
Rachel: Awesome. Yeah, that was a great introduction. You guys were two of our kind of earlier partners. It's a lot easier for us to bring on now, but we really appreciated you guys kind of getting on board with the vision before there was really a lot to get on board with. So yeah, thanks for passing on the word to her. What I think is the most important question is how can Simple Switch listeners, anyone hearing this podcast support you? What are you working on right now?
Megan: Yeah, you know, the one thing, I always like to start with this question is just sharing the story. There are a billion people living without electricity, so that's one out of every seven humans living without electricity.
Rachel: I can't even conceptualize a billion. Let's just take a minute; a billion people. Yeah. Wild.
Megan: Yeah. And while there are, you know, a lot of advancements and that's wonderful, there are also quite a few setbacks. If you think about the kind of refugee situation and climate crisis, there are more people kind of being impacted by the short term lack of electricity. So, this isn't a problem that is, necessarily, you know, making significant progress in certain... in certain areas, there are electrifying, kind of Subsaharan Africa and things like that. We're doing a much better job but there's still a lot of work to be done.
So the first thing I would just ask people to do is follow us on Instagram and help share our story, help people understand that this is a really, really big problem. And then, you know, always buy light. We would love for you to buy one of our lights and we'll donate one and then we'd love to hear stories about that as well. Kind of like you were saying about you're hiking the volcano and sending those amazing pictures. We love to hear how people are using our lights and get their feedback so that we can continue to provide the best products possible to everyone we work with.
Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I know from analytics that a lot of our listeners are from here in Colorado, so if you guys are going on an awesome hiking trip or I'm traveling anywhere, this has gotta be your first stop on Simple Switch, guys. Like this is seriously a great product and it's one that you are going to use for years to come and pass along. So I definitely, yeah, I encourage you guys to do that. And I will include y'alls story website as well as your Instagram in the show notes to make sure people are able to do that.
Megan: Awesome. Thanks so much.
Rachel: Yeah. Is there anything else that you want us to know? I always want there to be the opportunity if things have gone unsaid for you to say them.
Megan: I think we covered it. I really appreciate the opportunity to chat with you and your listeners and to be featured on Simple Switch.
Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. We're so thankful for you. Thanks for all the work that you're doing and for the people that you work with and for the good listener that you are.
Outro: Thanks so much for joining me today. If you'd like this episode, you can support us by leaving a great review, sharing with your friends and subscribing. Thanks for caring about our planet and the people on it. We'll see you again soon.