Kathy Brooks of 2nd Story Goods and the Power of a Purchase
Kathy Brooks of 2nd Story Goods and the Power of a Purchase
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Intro: Welcome to the Simple Switch podcast where you'll join me Rachel, the founder of Simple Switch, to talk about conscious consumerism and positive impact purchasing. Spending our money in a way that helps our planet and the people on it can be complicated and frustrating. And we're passionate about bringing ease to your journey. Join us as we demystify big ideas about conscious consumerism, and hear from amazing business owners using their work for positive change. Thanks for being here, and enjoy the show.
Rachel: Hey, guys today on the podcast, we have Kathy Brooks. She is the founder, CEO and Director of 2nd Story Goods. They are one of our earliest partners, as well as one of our most popular I'm sure you've seen their goods if you've been on our site. Thanks for being here with us, Kathy.
Kathy: Thank you, Rachel.
Rachel: So we'll start with the basics. Who are you? Where is the company located? And also where does it have its impact and what is it that you guys are making and selling?
Kathy: Okay, great. So, my name is Kathy Brooks. In Haiti, I go by MK, which is a shortened version of Mommy Kathy.
Rachel: Oh, why is that?
Kathy: Which I thought is slightly more professional than being called mommy at all times. So yeah, it's my new name, my grown up name. And we're located in the city of Gonaives, which is about an hour north of Port au Prince in Haiti and in the Caribbean. Yeah, we make all kinds of beautiful things, Rachel. We are big into leather journals, and bags, now. We've got some really pretty totes, and we just are about to release a new backpack and a new messenger bag.
Kathy: Yeah, you're gonna love it. I think you're gonna love it. And then we also have a line of jewelry using locally sourced clay and glass and recycled pieces. And we also have a sewing group. So we do clothing, and also bags made out of, we love to take products or materials found in country and repurpose them. And the main reason behind that is because people in country have already invested in those materials. Us purchasing from them, actually helps their businesses grow, and helps them support their family. So we buy clothing that is being sold secondhand in the market, bring it back, wash it, and cut it up and then turn it into either fabric or turn it into new pieces of clothing.
Rachel: Oh, that’s amazing.
Kathy: Which is one of my favorite things to do. And that takes a lot of labor. There's a lot of labor involved in that, which is wonderful because it puts more people to work.
Rachel: Yeah, that's amazing. But I didn't even know that. I mean, I'd heard the idea behind the Second Story, which I'll let you talk more about. But yeah, in case it wasn't clear about Kathy just said they have one of the biggest varieties of any of our partners. So if you guys are on simple switch and you're doing shop a vendor, second story is a great place to start because, I mean, I was just telling her before we started recording, I'm currently wearing a second story goods earrings. I use their journal every day for you know, my thought dumps. My best friend has one of the metal wall arts that you guys made, up on her wall from when she got married. So it's like a monogrammed piece. And yeah, honestly, you guys have an incredible offering, so I'm super impressed. Yeah, so tell us about how Second Story got started.
Kathy: Okay, so I took my first visit to Haiti in 2003 went down with some girlfriends because my husband and son had gone down with a church mission trip. And my son was 13 at the time, and he came back and he was changed and the interesting, first thing he did was he came home, he went upstairs, he took his bed apart and moved it to the storage unit and slept on the floor for two years, in some sort of a way to connect with the kids that he had met in Haiti that were also sleeping on the floor. And so that had a big impact on me as his mom. So a few months later, I took my first trip with some girlfriends, and was just deeply impacted. It's just an incredibly beautiful country. It's the Caribbean and, you know, the rivers, the mountains, the oceans are just gorgeous, but mostly it's the people. And I was so impacted by the beauty and joy and just the strength of the people there.
On my first day of my first trip, I was with a friend who we were staying with who is a missionary there and runs a school. And we had gotten in the car to go somewhere. And we pulled over on the side of the road to pray actually, and while we were doing that a woman walked up carrying a baby. And when we finished praying, my friend Sherry looked up and began to speak with this lady. And they talked for a little while in Creole, and of course, at that point, I had no idea what they were talking about, because I couldn't decode this language.
Kathy: And so after some time, the woman walked away with her baby. And I asked Sherry, I said, what was that all about? And she said, she was asking us if we would be willing to take her baby. And I was sitting in the backseat, and I never I didn't have any place on my grid to put this, you know, I was like, what in the world. And she said, she had three more children at home and wasn't able to keep them all fed, and as I sat there dumbfounded, Sherry turned around and looked at me square in the face, and she said, please understand, she no more wants to give her child away than you do.
Kathy: And that moment, I thought about our youngest she was four at the time, Rebecca. And I thought what would I have to be feeling inside as a mom, that I could hand her away to a stranger?
Kathy: Not knowing if I'd ever see her again. And I call that my moment of perfect moral clarity. Because It never ceases to stir my heart and the courage that this woman had and how desperately she wanted to care for her child. And the desperation she felt that was the only way possible she could. And so I really knew at that moment in time, exactly the way you're never supposed to make decisions. But that was when I made the decision that I would spend the rest of my life doing something where women on the planet feel that sense of desperation.
Kathy: Even knowing it would, not have a clue how to do at that time, not even knowing what I didn't know. But I knew that's what I was going to spend my energy on. And so that's really I have to say, when people will say, how did it start? I'm thinking it really started in that moment.
Rachel: Real powerful story, that's incredible. And I mean, that is what you guys are doing.
Rachel: Okay, well, I mean, in that regard, so you guys have that kind of heart behind it. Tell me, do you have a favorite story kind of from the impact side from what you guys are able to do that kind of brings about that mission?
Kathy: I do have a whole collection.
Rachel: I’m sure you have.
Kathy: Working on a book right now and I hope to get it finished this year.
Rachel: Oh, how exciting.
Kathy: Yeah, it is. It's so much fun and so much work, but I really feel like I've got to get these all the stories and the things we've learned into a collection. So that least maybe a couple of people not have to make some of the same mistakes we've made along the way.
Rachel: I can't wait to read it.
Kathy: It's a lot about mistakes that we've made, and some of them are pretty funny in hindsight. You know, when we got to the area of Gonaive where we work, and it was really on the outskirts of the city, and to the point where most people in the city of Gonaive will never go to this part of the city. It's pretty much the end of the road. But that's the part that of course we were the most attracted to. And so the needs are so tremendous. And I would like to say too that all of Haiti is not like that. There are some very wealthy people in Haiti and very, there's even some upper middle class families it is in disproportion in the number of families that are living, you know, below sustainable incomes but this part is the, basically the very lowest income bracket in the city and so, the needs are great. And I felt like all day long, I would walk around with whatever money I had, and it would just be one person after another after another coming and asking for things.
And I know real practical, you know, true needs. And so I spent all my days like, well, what do you need? Okay, What do you need? They'd say something, I have this. What do you need? And I was actually reading in scripture one day, where a widow came to a prophet, saying, “You know, help me help me. My rent is due I can't pay it. The landlord is threatening to take my children away.” Which is basically what happens you know, in developing worlds children get separated from the parents. And the Prophet turned to her and he said, “What do you have?”
I was like, “Wait, what? What did you just ask the woman?”
And I know I'd read that a million times but it just popped out at me this day. And he didn't ask her what she needed, he asked her what she had.
Kathy: And even though we were already working along the lines of teaching people to make jewelry and different things, and so that they could become self sustaining but this really cemented it to me that this was a shift in posture that we begin to look at people searching for what it is they have inside of them or what their capacity is, because that's the only way to break the grip of poverty.
Kathy: Charity has never changed the economics of a country and it doesn't have the capacity to do that. But when people can find in themselves, what they have, what their capacity is, and that their capacity becomes their greatest asset versus their poverty. That’s the only way to change things.
Rachel: Absolutely. I love that so much. I just love that shift because we definitely focus with Simple Switch on that empowerment side in this the sustainability of those things. And that's, you know why we sell products as opposed to ask for donations. But I love that simple switch.
Rachel: The Simple Switch you know, what do you have? Even asking people in our own lives that. A lot of times I'm asking people what they need, and instead focusing on that it's incredible.
Kathy: Well, that's what drew us to to Simple Switch, because you're very clear about that in your messaging, that you are out to change the economies of the world.
Rachel: Yeah. You know, just a small goal.
Kathy: Just a small girl goal. And you know, we are too, and really, that's the only way you can do it is through business and through enterprise.
Kathy: And it's really not everybody gets that. And so clearly, you know, seeing your story and hearing your story, it made us like yes, we want to work with these people.
Rachel: Oh, good. Our hearts were similar like right from the beginning, which I loved.
Kathy: Yeah, absolutely. So, just a quick story. One of our artists came to me one day and took me by the hand and walked me over to her house, which she was kind of ashamed of what she wanted me to see the situation where it was very, very rickety, made with tent that holes in it. There's a tiny little one room place, and she pulled up a little thin mattress on the floor and showed me where the critters had been, chewed through the floor and how they were getting to her kids at night.
Kathy: And it just…it crushed me again. And we just really prayed into creating some designs that she herself could claim as her own and began to really market this specific necklace. Back then it was made by her; now, it's made by a whole team of people to clarify. But through that, through her the work of her hands and her choices, she was able to build her own block house. And like that was probably four years ago now and she has since rented that, went out and built another one.
Rachel: Oh wow.
Kathy: So yeah, she has become I mean, she's a really strong young woman, but I think it's just realizing that people don't need to be carried; they just need a road. You know, those carry themselves and their kids and their grandparents, you know.
Rachel: Totally. So many good sound bites out of this already the switching of that question, like, just need a road. That is such an awesome way to think about it.
Kathy: Yeah, so true.
Rachel: I love that, very cool. Okay, so we know that this impact goes both ways when we saw things like this. So do you have a favorite story? From the customer side, someone who's bought one of your products?
Kathy: Oh, gosh, I don't hear those as often as I hear the…obviously.
Rachel: Especially since you're living in Haiti that's kind of, you know, hit or miss with our partners whether they're able to do that.
Kathy: I have heard of people that have bought the angels, we make angels from recycled glass and ceramics. Yeah.
Rachel: We have a bunch of those, I love them.
Kathy: Thank you. That's actually one of our very first products. It's still one of our best selling products.
Rachel: That’s awesome.
Kathy: And because of the margins on it that actually has the highest impact on our artisans.
Rachel: Oh, good, Yeah, we got a bunch of those as Christmas presents. Me and then also my family, so we really like them, they are so pretty.
Kathy: Thank you. Yeah, they really are. They're precious and each one is different. But I've heard stories of people having them in their cars, and avoiding accidents and they just felt like God with them. And with this angel, I wish I had my memories better. But I know that I’ve had story given to me, but I think one of the really cool things about that product too is you know, we have the slow times and we don't have work for the artisans. And I mean, someone could call or place an order for 100 angels that will make the difference, you know, that morning, they place that order that afternoon, the artisans are working.
Kathy: You know, and so it's just an immediate impact.
Rachel: That is so cool, love that. So, we touched on this a little already. So we might be able to kind of keep this one short, but at Simple Switch, we use the phrase, you've probably seen positive impact purchasing. So, we feel like that kind of embodies all of the partners we're able to work with. What does that mean to you guys? And how do you feel like your business fits into that term ‘positive impact’?
Kathy: Yeah, such a great question, and I'm so so deeply ingrained in this now. Because there's the pyramid that shows the top few percent, making most of the world's wealth. And I really feel like change the shape is one of my hashtags, though, unless you explain it. It's hard to understand it, but I feel like our call is to change the shape of that pyramid.
Rachel: I love that.
Rachel: Just another thing to keep in my head for a launcher.
Kathy: I think it's very critical for the days to come. I’m a person who believes with the world is going to heaven in a handbasket, not the other way around. Things are really on the move for positive change, and that we as humanity, we are caring more about our brothers and sisters around the world than we ever have before.
Kathy: And I think that it has been proven that it's through and enterprise and business opportunities that the shape of that pyramid does change.
Kathy: And so I again, I say again, I love that you're getting that message out with your business. And you're helping people to understand that every dollar you spend is a vote that says, this is how I want the world to be.
Kathy: I'm getting all emotional just thinking about it again, because I live in that air, I see it so directly from not having an order to having an order means I can get my kids uniforms made, and they get to go to school the first week or I can’t…
Kathy: So, I mean, it's education, its safety, its health, it's all of the things that it's family. It's all the things that we care about. Purchasing is the power to make those things happen in the world. So it's yes, it's extremely powerful.
Rachel: Oh man.
Rachel: I just love it, yeah, I'm also getting emotional. I just believe in this so much. I mean, we just brought on a cohort of six new interns for the summer. And I just remember sitting in one of our interviews, you know, I had some awesome interviews, some less than awesome interviews. But sitting with one of our current interns, Austin and he sat down in that interview and just immediately said, I love what you're doing because I think Business and Commerce has the power to really solve a lot of the world's biggest seemingly unsolvable problems. So, obviously he you know, connected with me immediately. Yeah, he’s a huge value to the company. But I just loved hearing that.
Kathy: That's great.
Rachel: So we are going to talk about our brand value, ease without apathy. The goal for this is just to make it people don't have to change their, you know, entire daily routine or change the kind of things that they need in their life, there's a lot of routines that are healthy in our life, we shouldn't have to think about, you know, every decision. So, heavily necessarily so bringing that ease, but without bringing the apathy where people can still engage and understand those stories and, you know, feel the beautiful way of what they're doing, as opposed to maybe the negative way that could have been happening before. So, how do you feel like Second Story, and, you know, kind of brings an ease or its win some or appealing for people to use their purchasing power for good. And how do you balance that with engaging people with the stories?
Kathy: Yeah, that's another really good question. We are all about the stories. I'm naturally a writer and I speak my language as a story, not so much spreadsheets.
Kathy: I write for my own sanity.
Kathy: It's the way I get through some days, honestly. Sorry, getting emotional again. Hold it together woman.
Rachel: That’s okay.
Kathy: Yeah. So, I tell the truth. I am a truth teller. And I also write with the idea that the people that I write, the stories about are reading it. So it's always about the honor and the best way of seeing the situation.
Rachel: Yes, love that.
Kathy: That I possibly can. And we we never use poverty to sell anything.
Rachel:Yeah, like guilt tactics or anything like that.
Kathy: Yeah. There's nothing beautiful about that. We love to tell the stories of the way people are using their capacity to make these choices. We've created, like you said, we've created this space. Now people are choosing to walk down it.
Kathy: To save, to change their own lives. So, you know the heroes are the people walking and of course, obviously the partners buying. So we are really big on storytelling. We have an amazing couple of girls, women that lead up our social media and marketing department and they are amazing writers themselves. One is our daughter who grew up in Haiti during her teenage years. So she's 20 now but she carries all of that in her.
Kathy: And she's just brilliant. So she is really good at using social media MailChimp to talk to people just really honestly, and then tell the story behind the products as well. I agree with you like we don't want to ask people to make huge leaps and buy things they don't need or they wouldn't ordinarily use. Because, you know, everybody needs to be responsible with their resources. But if this is a reasonable choice, and maybe it's $10, more than you would pay at Target, but you're buying so much more.
Rachel: Yeah. And you're prices are actually really reasonable. I know. Sometimes pricing is something that scares people away from that. I just want to mention that so the listeners know. Like, when I took you guys on as a partner, I was really impressed with how reasonable your prices are. So thank you for that, because that really does bring that ease. We have a couple partners that have really done that on purpose. So it’s cool to see that.
Kathy: Thank you, we try.
Rachel: Okay, so you mentioned that you kind of have a bunch, you know, a bunch of stories of where things went wrong or where you guys had to change something. And our other brand value is iterate often. So what is you know, a short example of a time where you had to shift or pivot and how did it affect your business? I think that those things sometimes even more valuable than the successes. So I love to hear these stories.
Kathy: I agree with you. Oh, there's so many of those, but I will keep it to a short one. But I know one time…so we have three groups of basket makers. And one day, one of the lady who's the head of one of the groups came in and she told us that the price of the materials, the latanya for making the best tickets, had gone up. And it had something to do with storm, Hurricane Matthew, I think that hit the Lower Peninsula. And so they were really in a tight spot and their margins were getting squeezed out by the you know, the number of baskets we were ordering.
Kathy: And she came to us, you know, very humbly, you know, we have a great relationship with I think all of our makers, we really respect the people that can do these hard things.
Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. I don't know how to make a basketball
Kathy: I don’t either and I don’t even want to try. But so they came and they asked us, it was a pretty significant price change that they wanted to do. And I said, you know what, I'm going to think about it. I'm going to look at the numbers, and I'm going to get back to you. Because this is the sad truth, Rachel. If I'd said, “No, we can't,” they would have kept making them.
Kathy: For that price, because that's what you can do to the poor, you can exploit the poor. And it's one of the things that makes me the saddest of everything in the world of how people have been taken advantage of, I mean, more. Well, I'll finish the story before I jumped in another one. So I looked at the prices and I realized this was going to cause our wholesale and retail prices to go up significantly as well, in order to cover the margins that we needed to continue to run. And so I wrote about it, I wrote an essay and I said friends, great news. Our baskets are going up. You know, this is our new marketing scheme, we're raising our prices, we're telling you about it. But we want you to know, we want to understand why.
Kathy: Because the one thing you can count on us to do is to walk with justice with the artisans, because if we don't do that, there's no reason for us to exist in the world.
Rachel: Totally, oh that’s so good.
Kathy: And so we just brought it right out to me. And every single person, every single customer that responded said, that's what we count on you for, we count on you to be treating the people in the company, the people that make products for you justly.
Kathy: And we will adjust.
Rachel: You know, I mean, people who would come to Simple Switch would say the same thing, like they are counting on me to work with partners like you who are going to take that feedback. And I'm just imagining, you know, in what we hear about other industries, there are so many workers in the world who are being exploited, who would never feel the freedom to even come to you with that. So I'm so thankful that's, you know, how you guys run.
Kathy: And honestly, Rachel, there'll be times when I'll just say someone will quote me a price and I'll be like, you know what brother, I can't, I can't pay you that because that's not fair. We have to raise that up and they just look at me like, excuse me What? I just can't.
Kathy: I know that the market will bear a higher price because your work is remarkable. And so we're going to have to adjust this up. Because first things first, if I'm not doing this piece, right, then nothing else matters.
Rachel: Absolutely, that’s so good.
Kathy: And at the same time, I struggle for margin all the time, because we're always struggling to make payroll. So anyway.
Rachel: I get that. Oh, man, yeah. I'm just thrilled about that. Always, I'm just smiling throughout these interviews because I just get to work with the best people.
Rachel: Yeah, a lot of times we asked, you know, why did you choose to sell through Simple Switch you already mentioned I mean, our passions and our goals and our mission are obviously so aligned. Is there any other things that you wanted to mention about that?
Kathy: I love the concept that also you make it so easy for customers. Because that is the part that we all have to do things quickly or we won't do them. And the fact that you make it easy to come to one site and find so many different products and I'm sure it's growing all the time.
Kathy: That I think that's the piece that the world was waiting for. And so I really am grateful that you are you bringing that together and I mean I'm I love that we get to be a part of it. I hope we have a very long
Rachel: I’m sure we will.
Kathy: Striving relationships
Rachel: Not ending anytime soon. Yeah, that's so encouraging to me. I remember early on in my kind of ideation process, one of the things that really triggered what I wanted Simple Switch to be about was that, you know, I was seeing Amazon coming out with this new thing. I don't think it really took off so I'm not sure if they're still doing it but where you could get a button like physical button and put it somewhere in your home. So like for instance, near your laundry detergent, and then when you were running out of laundry detergent, press it and then that would immediately put in an order for more of those things. And I was like, man, that is so convenient. And I am personally a very typical, you know, over committer and often busy and so I'm thinking like those kind of things. Although, you know, a little bit ridiculous are gonna help people really want to make those orders more often and make it so much more easy for them. And I was like man in the space that I'm in with impact purchasing, it just doesn't feel like people have that, really anything like that.
Rachel: Because I would spend you know, like three hours trying to find which …
Rachel: I'm going to get a new pair of pants from just like…
Rachel: Anyway, so that's really encouraging to me that you guys also like that. Okay, so you have a huge product alrighty, so this one will be hard but for you personally. What is your favorite product that you sell and why do you love it?
Kathy: Oh my goodness. Okay, I have to say, two okay. So I love the extra large raw tote, leather tote.
Rachel: Yeah, it’s so pretty.
Kathy: It is so and listen, we're about to launch it in like a ashy dark gray.
Rachel: Oh, cool.
Kathy: I may have to get a second one because the color is just so gorgeous. You can just still barely see like the blemishes and the leather coming through it.
Kathy: But I know it's just going to get so yummy as it ages too.
Rachel: Yeah, that's so beautiful.
Kathy: So I love that tote, I travel with it all the time and I have to keep business cards like in my pocket like as I'm going down the airplane aisle. Because people asked me, I like hand out cards like here, here. So that's a biggie and then the other thing was just kind of odd, we don't even sell very many of them but I really love our confetti rugs.
Rachel: Oh, yeah I had a lot of compliments on those.
Kathy: Yeah. And we just came out with the pillows. I have them on my bed. I work at a stand up desk, I should say I work at standup desks because I seem to like put them anywhere [unclear30:18] you know, and I the best and most favorite thing is to be standing on confetti rug. Because it just feels like there's a party going on down there.
Rachel: Oh, yeah.
Kathy: I love that kind of playful energy when I'm you know, I’m grueling away at the keyboard.
Rachel: Absolutely, have fun.
Kathy: It is you should just try it and see if you get that sort of like,
Rachel: Yeah, I'll have to.
Kathy: It’s kind of like.
Rachel: Reading in my home office.
Kathy: Yeah, it's really I don't know I love and I also know like the women that make them and it's also made from this second, a recycled fabrics that are in country and it's just got so much goodness all the way down the line.
Kathy: Recycled coffee bags, all that so anyway, I can talk about a ton.
Rachel: Yeah. I mean, you guys have so many, I could also tell. I mean, like I said, I mean in my house and my dear friends houses and then also I mean people that we just get through Google and social media, and people really connect with your products. I mean, just even on a non story basis, so you guys are doing a great job.
Rachel: I was, Oh, I just got kind of butterflies in my stomach because you were saying, you know, I know the women who make them. I mentioned this to you before, but our hope is that I will actually go down this time with my dad I've been doing these vendor visits. And the last one was to Guatemala and getting to see the artisans who are making the products that we're doing and getting to you know, kind of do this like a little bit of storytelling on a deeper level, but I can't wait to do that with you guys in person and meet some of these people. That just puts so much more on a selfish note. That just gives me so much encouragement to like know them and you know, create those friendships.
Kathy: Oh yeah,
Rachel: Next time I'm wearing my earrings, I will thank God I met who makes them. I’m seriously wearing them almost everyday, it's probably getting a little out of hand but.
Kathy: Wonderful we would love to have you in, listen, it's super encouraging to makers too I mean, whenever we have partners come down, we always make a big deal and we introduce you to the makers.
Rachel: Oh, good.
Kathy: Because that you will be smothered in love and appreciation because they understand that without people like you guys and your customers, we got nothing. we got nothing.
Rachel: Vice versa too man, I'm so excited to meet them.
Kathy: It'll be fun.
Rachel: Oh, that's a special, yeah. That's what my dad, so he wears his belt from you guys. My dad and my grandpa wear their belts from you guys like everyday. That's actually in our commercial that we released is my grandpa holding up one of the belts you guys made.
Kathy: Oh, my God.
Kathy: You can meet Vinson.
Rachel: I wish that I could bring my grandpa, he's 92 so he probably can’t come with us. But my dad, that's what he wanted for his birthday was to meet you guys. He asked me, you know if I would bring him along. So if that I mean, that just shows kind of the power of how much people love you.
Rachel: Yeah. So you said that you're coming out with a book, which I'm thrilled about other than hopefully reading that someday. How can our listeners support you? Is there any particular you know, action items that you would love for them to be doing?
Kathy: Well, that's great. They can spread the word, tell their friends. Buy from you, and you don't have it buy from us. And I think just yeah, the more sales that we do you know, the better we stay in business.
Kathy: We're working on a fundraise right now trying to raise, we have a matching grant right now. So we're trying to raise $25,000 to help us.
Kathy: With machines and things that we don't have the margins to buy for ourselves yet, you know as a company but we're still registered nonprofit under much ministry so we are we can give tax receipts, but you know you can go on our website and see that. We've got up to $10,000 so we just yeah.
Rachel: Yeah, we definitely have you know, listeners and consumers like that I had a friend recently he buys a lot of our coffee and the other day he asked. So we you know, take donations if people want to give them. And he told me listen, how can I make a donation because I can't buy enough coffee.
Rachel: Financial you know, support of you. And you know, if all he ever did for the rest of his life was buy coffee from me, I'd be so thankful but it was very, you know, cool time. So if you guys are feeling led, listeners, to support Second Story in even bigger ways you guys are encouraged to go check out their matching grant, and I'll put that link to that maybe in the show notes.
Kathy: Okay, thanks.
Rachel: Cool yeah, anything else that you want listeners to know?
Kathy: Yeah, I just I'd really like them to understand how powerful they are. And if they're listening this podcast, and there's a chance that they are a customer of yours.
Kathy: And I really wish I could, have said this so many times, I wish they could feel the weight of what they're doing with each purchase. It's not great marketing. It's not a scheme. It is actually changing the shape of that pyramid. That is making such a real difference in the lives of real people every day. Like it's a big deal, here is what I want to say. What you're doing, every purchase is a big freakin’ deal.
Rachel: Yeah, absolutely.
Kathy: It’s for good, and so I think that if I could get that message across to people. Yeah, that's what I'd like to do.
Rachel: That's so good, Well, I think that you did a great job of getting that across today. And that's why I love doing these interviews because I think just even the tone of your voice people can hear, you know the weight of that. So that's awesome and incredible. Well, thank you so much for talking to us today. I cannot wait to get to come and meet you and the artist in person. Yeah, thank you so much for being with us today, Kathy.
Kathy: Alright, Rachel, thanks for the opportunity, and onward and upward.
Outro: Thanks so much for joining me today. If you'd like this episode, you can support us by leaving a great review, sharing with your friends and subscribing. Thanks for caring about our planet and the people on it. We'll see you again soon.
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